First of all, I’m sorry but this is going to be long. Very long. I don’t have the energy to break it up into multiple posts. Cher did quite a few appearances on television and podcasts, live interviews and Sirius Radio to promote her new memoir, part 1. Which seems to be paying off because the book has topped the New York Times Best Seller list for something like four to six weeks now. And the interviews are interesting for the different angles they explore on the book and because she, in some cases, elaborates on points from the book or they bring up new stories untold in the book.
In the print interviews, there were typical words that would recur: most commonly grit and gutsy. This reminded me of a Cher Zine article I did for Cher Zine 3 in 2011 called “Synonyms for Strong.” I had been a part of a news group years earlier and it had a questionnaire for new fans and I saved them for data review plus the same survey to some non-fans I knew. Words used to describe Cher were the most interesting part of the study: words like tenacity (ability to survive, survivor, determined, re-invention, resilience), non-conformity was the next popular word (does what she wants, doesn’t care what people think, is not playing the game, is true to herself), third was her bold attitude (boldness, uninhibited, gutsy, courageous, has guts, has moxie, is straight-forward, spunky, tells it like it is, outspoken, speaks her mind) and finally the term self-confidence (self-esteem, tramp but she loves it). All were strong adjectives.
What I find interesting about the TV and podcast interviews is how most of the interviewers ask Cher when her next album is coming out and not when her next movie is coming out. Maybe this is because she’s been attached to so many movies that never got made, that movies for her are now so rare, or because, although she’s a much more acclaimed actress, it’s the music we want.
Here are some of the highlights of those 15 or so interview appearances (that I saw).
CBS Sunday Morning (17 November 2024)
Cher says she felt like she spent half of her adult life writing the book, that it took three drafts and only the last one was close to being right, a 4th draft would have been better. “Like me.” This is the first interview where she talks about how the first drafts were bad because they were just an encyclopedia of facts you could look up (first draft) or because she didn’t want to say much (second draft). She finally felt she had to “do it or give the money back.” She wanted to tell stories but “didn’t have a burning desire” to do the book. As with most of Cher’s projects, she admits she was lured in by the idea that “it would be fun.” But it was instead a lot of work. Some things, like her relationship with Sonny, were hard to explain. And she agonized about those things. She insists here and in other interviews that their television show was not fake affection, even as they were splitting up. But rather it was the only place Sonny and Cher could find peace, (or Cher could, at any rate), as their relationship deteriorated due to Sonny’s lack of personal interest in the personal relationship and his increasing interest in the business of show business. The show, from Cher’s point of view, was always fun. Cher felt a sense of relief when they were working and more of a sense of equality there because acting came so much easier to her than to Sonny.
Cher then goes into the childhood chapters, how some of her childhood history she didn’t know for many years (the orphanages, the living with caregivers for extended periods, not living with her mother until she was three). Her first memory was of a Bambi highchair. She says she was more surprised by learning of her early shaking beginnings and how her friend Paulette saw the picture of Cher in the orphanage (Cher’s mom Georgia could show it to Paulette but was never able to show it to Cher). The unknown experienced caused a fear of abandonment she’s had her whole life (admitting she is the person to leave most of her relationships first) and a fear of waking up and not knowing where she is. How ironic, Cher says, that she picked a job where she wakes up in different places most of the time. Cher talks about the hard times living with her mother, how she had to be a grownup from the beginning and yet was also really childish. She calls this her “split personality,” how she can still be savvy and naive at the same time. “I was watching and understanding everything…in a childish way.” She says she saw the fights, the chaos but also the fun and the beauty. She talks about how her love of clothing developed from her mother’s friends, “balls to the walls women” who “the moment they got with a man they got stupid.” (Oy.) She says of her step-dad, “I loved my Dad. I loved him. They were good for each other in one way and so wrong in another. So in love they were both beautiful he was jealous he was flirtatious he had a drinking problem and violent temper.” She said they had to be on guard and hyper-vigilant because “one drink would be the end of everything.”
Cher talks about meeting Sonny who was wearing a mohair suit, mustard color shirt with a white collar and his Cuban (or Beatle) boots. “He was kind of childish. He got to be real with me. I didn’t expect anything. I didn’t want money. Women his age wanted him to be grownup.” She talks about arts and crafts they would do. “Those ladies didn’t want to do that.” She says Sonny was the first person (other than her mother) who thought Cher could be a singer. She talks about being relegated to the chorus in a Junior High production of The Mikado because she was too high for male parts and too low for girl parts. Cher talks about how she was Sonny’s pal at first, just a kid and how she lied to him a few times about her age. And what she felt for him she never again felt for anyone else. “It wasn’t passionate. I just loved him. He could get away with anything. He was different than anyone else and he made me laugh. We had a dream and we started to try to find this dream. He wanted to be the producer and me to be the artist. I didn’t want that. He had tried to be an artist himself and couldn’t do it.” She admits Sonny might have only been pretending stardom was achievable for them. But that ultimately she believed in his belief. “I’m not sure he knew it. I don’t know with him. His faith made you believe. He would propel me and I would go kicking and screaming.” Harry Smith talks about how well their voices blended and Cher admits “He had the worst voice. Mine wasn’t that much better. I didn’t learn how to sing until 15 years ago.” [Many people during these interviews, including me, contend that Cher’s organic, imperfect voice was just fine, maybe even better.]
Cher talks about how Sonny had to find his way in comedy, how he never learned the script or the songs like she would. He would “crash or fall through it. Then we stared laughing and that was his character.” Smith asks her about the phenom of “The Beat Goes On.” He means “I Got You Babe.” Cher again says, “What belongs to you comes to you.” That leads to talk of the lean times and how Sonny and Cher didn’t know anything about money or taxes. And how you shouldn’t bankroll your own movies. She talks about how the comedic Sonny & Cher schtick began with her banter with the band. “They laughed. Then Sonny laughed. Then the audience laughed. Sonny knew there was something there and we started working on that. It took a long time to get that material. I could kind of be who I was onstage. Not so much off.” Then the TV shows. “Freddie Silverman believed in us….People loved it, loved us” but Cher didn’t know it. She was too busy working. She tells the Sax Fifth Avenue perfume department story where she walked through with the show costume designer, Ret Turner, and “everyone just stopped talking” and Turner said, “This is TV famous.” But then Sonny started to change, smoking cigars, saying things like “run along.” It took Cher a long time to figure out that Sonny stopped caring about her as a wife. She admits Sonny wasn’t jealous. “He had a million women.” She says she didn’t know. “Of course not.” She tells the story about finding him with another woman when he was working on their movie Chastity. Cher reports that he wasn’t faithful to any of the women he was with. But, just as others have said throughout the years, Cher loved Sonny in spite of everything. They were oddly inseparable. “You couldn’t cut it with a chain saw, our relationship. He couldn’t understand it. I couldn’t understand it. I tried my best to explain it.”
Talk then moves to David Geffen, “the sweetest, most fun. most thoughtful boyfriend she ever had.” It was Geffen who dug out her contracts with Sonny and tried to extract her from them. Cher explains how she convinced Fred Silverman at CBS not to pick up the contract on the show in 1974, thereby ending her obligations to work for nothing. Cher then talks about how over the years she asked Sonny in a variety of ways why he cut her out of the earnings entirely. But he was never able to explain why, other than she would leave him some day. [I wonder if this was his way of saying he needed all the money he could get before his days in show business were over.] They move on to Gregg Allman. “I was madly, madly, madly in love with him. He was so sweet and so gentle and so wonderful and he was a heroin addict. I went through a lot with him but we loved each other.” Cher says that at the end Allman’s best friend told her she were the one. Cher says throughout it all, Allman kept trying. She says if you’re a musician and your boyfriend is a musician, there’s a special essence to the relationship, “a spirit beyond being in love.” Cher admitted she wanted to go back to working professionally with Sonny. But America didn’t go for it. “People didn’t like that we weren’t married and that I was with Gregg. His people hated it and my people hated it.” Cher says her early recording days were “not a good time for female artists,” that she never got to choose her songs and that being a solo artist felt not that much different from being a background singer. “Girls run along. There wasn’t much getting control . It took me a long, long time. Even now I make blunders.” “Doesn’t everybody,” Smith asks. Cher says, “I’ve been in the business too long. I shouldn’t be making any blunders. I’m so trusting. I shouldn’t be.”
The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon (18 November 2024) – Interview clip, skit
Fallon introduces her by saying, “there’s only one Cher. Icon, legend. (Those pants!) Cher comes out to a standing ovation and asks either innocently or cynically, “Is there a sign that says stand up?” Fallon and Cher do a funny Irish dancing skit. During the interview Fallon talks about his prior ideas for her memoir titles: I Got Scoops Babe, Over-Chering, Breath of Fresh Cher and how he was disappointed with the final result. Cher again talks about parts of her life she wanted to guard, how life is much more complicated than she could explain. Fallon calls Cher “just the coolest. You’re a trailblazer,” how after her failures she reinvented herself. She argues with this. She tells the childhood runaway train story, about how Sonny & Cher couldn’t get traction in the United States because of the way they looked. Of Dia Lupa and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame performance, “I love her. She’s so nice. We hit it off like crazy.” It is here that I learn that Fallon’s house band, The Roots, were the band at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ceremony. (This makes sense of the comment I didn’t understand that night. More on that later.)
A few days later, on Thanksgiving, Cher again reappears to do a skit with Fallon where they play The Turkettes, turkeys singing Cher songs.
We Can Do Hard Things podcast with Glennon Doyle (19 November 2024)
I had just read Untamed. As the podcast begins, Glennon, Abby (her wife) and her sister Amanda sing “Turn Back Time” together. They say they’re breathless with excitement, called Cher “so warm and wonderful.” They’ll focus on emotionally abusive relationships, Chaz coming out and Tina Turner. “The whole thing is so beautiful” Glennon says and calls Cher a “joyful, beautiful person.” They introduce her as “Cher, the icon.” Glennon said she loved the book, it was “so personal” and tells Cher, “it’s such a gift to learn about you as a person.” Glennon talks about memoir writing and “telling the truth while honoring your people.” Of Cher’s book, she says it was “beautifully done.” They talk about how Cher lost herself a bit with Sonny. But Cher quips that she “was 16 and didn’t have much of a self to lose.” They talk about how forgiving Cher is. And how Sonny struggled early on in the TV show and basically became “ a character who didn’t study his lines.” [In some ways I think Sonny made a better rock star than Cher in that way.] Glennon points out that on the show Cher was “allowed to exist in your Cherness.” Cher said “onstage we were equals. He needed me more than I needed him. Offstage, he was not interested in me being a human at all.” Cher talks about how suicidal thoughts happen when your vision narrows and options seem fewer. The task is to figure out wider options you can’t, at the moment, see. Cher says it never before occurred to her she could leave Sonny. She met him when she was sick and he took care of her and it stayed like that, just gradually worsening into a controlling state. “I never thought to rebel.” But she even forgives herself, “I wasn’t ready until I was ready.” They talk about Chaz being born and how “it lifted me up” and the TV show “lifted me up.” “I wish it hadn’t taken so long.” They talk about advice for women in abusive situations, “If you can’t get out, tell a friend, your mom, get out anyway.”
They then discuss Cher’s current boyfriend, Alexander. Cher says, “it’s very settled. We talk about music, friends, hope, God, desires, Slash, our love of things.” Cher says she’s more willing to argue, “I’m good at conflict, I’ve had it longer and I love him. He thinks he gives more. I think I give more.” Cher talks about the things she learned from her real father “Johnnie” Sarkisian (to differentiate from her step-dad, the man she calls her real father, sister Georganne’s dad, John Southall), They talk about the last time Cher lost her temper (first answer was with her sister and then she remembers a story about a road manager who shut the door on one of the road crew and how Cher exploded. They talk about her acting career. Cher said she loved Broadway matinees and she compares acting (getting small inside and letting things come out, an internal thing) and singing (let your voice come out). Cher demurs that she’s not an example of courage, “just moving forward, never thought of it as courage.”
The Today Show (19 November 2024)
They introduce Cher as an icon with six decades of songs, anthems all around the world, a TV legend, a movie star, a fashion luminary. Hoda Kotb notes that Cher is always 100% unapologetically herself. Cher says, “It was a journey…when I was 27, I was 16.” At 78, “what are they gonna do to me now?” Cher talks about stories of the orphanage. In different interviews and stories, it seems the political figure changes who rescues Cher back to her mother. It’s a congressman here. She talks about how Sonny dressed so well, the bracelet watch he was wearing when they met and how he had the “most beautiful hands and fingers I’d ever seen.” Cher says “fuck” on TV again during the Eastern Feed after Hoda oddly encourages her to and then frets about it after it happens. She initially says, “we’ll bleep it.” Cher says she stayed friends with Sonny “until before he married Mary I guess.” She talks about how David Geffen and John Sykes helped get her into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. She says her greatest achievement is her children and “not giving up.” She says Katharine Hepburn told her “it gets greater later.” And Cher repeats that “what belongs to you comes to you.”
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The Howard Stern Show (20 November 2024)
This was a fascinating interview to me. Stern had been really harsh on Cher after her eulogy to Sonny and I never would have imagined she’d appear on his show. But to Stern’s credit, he’s never intimidated by his guests and pushes them beyond initial answers, which always makes for a more quality conversation.
The interview jumps right in asking Cher about her interactions with Joni Mitchell while Mitchell was living with David Geffen during the making of Court and Spark. And this is also the benefit of a Stern interview, he asks about the cool stuff everyone else ignores. Stern says he can relate to Cher’s mother dramas and “the suffering Olympics.” He indicates her mom might have issues and Cher answered that her mother’s childhood was so horrible. He pushes and they spar on ideas. “<om would go dumb with men,” Cher said, “go Republican if he was.”
Stern admits he both “loved and wanted to strangle Sonny” while reading the book. “Sonny Bono should be in Rock and Roll Hall of Fame” and Cher answers “oh yeah.” They talk about the therapist story (sonny getting intel on Cher through her therapist) and Stern calls it out about how often Cher forgives people (we’re seeing it happen in real time). “You’re so kind to people,” your spirit.” Cher talks about how she felt protective of Sonny during their David Letterman appearance (not distant as Sonny relayed in his book). “He was going there in an emotional way” and Cher felt protective. Stern says he was shocked by her background. When Cher says The Wizard of Oz was a favorite movie, Stern quips, “Sonny was the wizard of Oz” and admits he understands that Sonny “really was the color in your life.”
In deeper ways, Stern asks questions about the days with Phil Spector, The Wrecking Crew. Cher admits, “I never had a plan in life” when talking about time with the Spector crew. Sonny told her, “You’re getting a college education,” Cher calls Eartha kit “mesmerizing and wanting to be like Elvis. Her fandom of Bob Dylan, but “All I Really Want to Do” being a monotonous song. She claimed Dylan “loved our version” (over The Byrds’), said it was the best one. Sonny really loved it.” Stern reminds Cher she has sold over 140 million albums. They talk about Sonny’s initial push and how Cher was happy for him to make the decisions. Stern acknowledges that Cher “tried not to make him a villain. Geffen is the real hero of the book.” Cher talks about the musicality of her grandfather, her love of Hank Williams, her lack of musical agency in her career and how girls don’t “take that shit” anymore, how she didn’t know “I Got You Babe” would be a hit but she knew “Believe” would be. She says she wishes she had kept the cleaner shirt cardboards Sonny wrote his songs on. Who would think to but a basson and an oboe in a pop song, Cher says. “Sonny Bono should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,” Stern says again. Cher says, “Well, yeah.” She recounts how Sonny would sing his songs to their arranger Harold Battiste, who was a genius. Later Cher talks about this again, how Sonny would sing his “crazy ideas” to Harold Battiste who would come up with an arrangement. Cher says “Philip did same thing with Jack Nitzsche. “sing down” ideas.
She says that The Rolling stones hated LA. All they met were “suits,” business people. They saw Jack Nitzsche and Sonny and felt they had found their people. They met Sonny & Cher at the Beverly Hilton lobby and began chatting Cher up. Sonny said “That’s my wife.” [But she wasn’t yet.] Cher tells us that Sonny had camera at the London Hilton as they were being told they had no reservation and he took a photo of their names on the register. [Can we get a book of Sonny’s photographs?]
Cher claims S&C had five songs in top 20, something only Elvis and the Beatles had done up to that time. She laments that out of 600 people, there are only 90 women in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. She says she is happy to be in there “with all these people I respect.” Stern complains that she should have had a meatier induction speaker than Zendaya (although they like her). Cher defends the Hall of Fame broadcast. “For them it was about TV.” Stern asks her who would have been meaningful to you, Paul McCartney, the Stones? Cher says “Jimi Hendrix – he would have been the one.” She then tells her Madison Square Garden story about meeting him. Stern says, “You love musicians” and then goes into interviewing Gregg Allman whom Stern calls a genius. Like Cher, Stern doesn’t imbibe and they talk about drug usage in rock music. Cher says, “They think its gonna make them happy” and that Allman was wonderful person, sweet and smart and funny. Stern is offended on behalf of Cher for Allman’s nickname for her, Chooch (which he says is slang for vagina). Cher contends Allman “meant it in a loving way. (This is weird, Cher defending Gregg Allman sexism to Howard Stern).
Stern admits the obvious, that every guy fantasied about having sex with Cher and that he personally was embarrassed to watch the Sonny & Cher shows in front of parents. This is something I really like about Howard Stern, how he says what few other men have the guts to say, he has the big balls to be honest even if its potentially embarrassing). Stern compares her solo outfits to a kind of strip show. Cher says Sonny was opposed to skimpy outfits because there were 27 million people watching. She talks about Sonny not letting her play music and after leaving him visiting Tower Records in LA where she bought a bunch of Stevie Wonder records.
“The Beat Goes On” Stern says, “that’s a really good song.” Cher says that song was unusual in that she did her vocal for it first, not like in other duets where they would be standing together. They talk about the Carol Kaye bass line, how she was the only women in The Wrecking Crew and the boys were always trying to fuck with her but she wasn’t having it.
They talk about “Gypsies Tramps and Theives.” “I don’t hate it; I have respect for people who love it. I wasn’t a decent singer until a few years ago. The song was picked out for me. I was told to do it….Nobody cared what I thought. [I often compare this to other singer’s stories about being asked to sing songs they don’t like and how they had agency to rewrite or rearrange those songs.] They admit “Half Breed” would never be released today. Cher says she doesn’t like her voice on it. Stern says, “I think you sound fabulous” but Cher says she had a hard time sustaining a high note and her tongue would stiffen. She said that produced a “weird sound” and that when she hears the song, “I cringe.” She says the song “I Got You Babe” was manifesting what she and Sonny used to dream about. They talk about the odds of having a hit song, how more talented people do not. Often it entails a special quality. They talk about some of the varied guests on the TV shows: Muhammad Ali, Tina Turner, Kris Kristofferson, Truman Capote, Bob Hope, the Jackson 5, how she was named one of the10 best dressed women in America. They talk about the road blocks she faced trying to get into acting, how even having the most important friends, “as high as you could go,” didn’t help.
Stern reminds Cher that “Sonny’s show tanked and Cher says, “I didn’t want him to fail. He was hysterical,” funny, that “without Sonny, there would be no Cher.” “Stern asks Cher if she was blasé about the musical career?” Cher says “I am a fabulous girlfriend” as they start talking about Gene Simmons. Stern imagines “guys expect fabulous sex” from Cher and she quickly says, “and they get it.” [Interview highlight, right there.] Of all her boyfriends, Cher says only Val Kilmer left. “I was madly in love with him.” Stern wonders if there is only room for one star? Cher says, “Not true.” They talk about the talent of Gregg Allman, how there were great times and how he was “lovely, interesting and fun and horrible…one of the best singers ever” [I can’t get there]. Stern says her male fans were “outraged he has you. No one should have you.” Cher admits, “They hated us.” Of their duet album Cher says, “he was great. I hated what I did. I was running to catch up with him. I was intimidated.” She says it was not a horrible experience.
Cher says Val Kilmer helped her prep for her movie Mask. Stern says her best ‘fuck you’ was her acting career. Cher talks about how nobody is ever allowed to cross from music to movies and about watching the Silkwood movie trailer in Westwood trailer where the audience stared laughing. Cher says it was “so real” and how her sister stared crying and Cher had to bite her cheek. Then she was nominated for an Oscar. Cher says the nominations are always a surprise. You’re just doing your work, your job. They struggle to remember who won best supporting actress that year and finally come to Linda Hunt.
Cher talks about fighting for Nicholas Cage in Moonstruck. In her mind, he was the only one who could say, “Chrissy, give me the big knife.”[Ok, I see her point now about that.] Cher says if she starts looking at other guys, the relationship is over. “Nobody calls me Cher.” Stern remarks on her nicknames for everybody: Philip, Gregory. She says her sister calls her Stupid, Gene called her Puppy, David called her Sweetheart, Alexander says Baby, Gregory Chooch. [They don’t mention Sonny but he did make shirts and hers was Prima Donna.] He reminds Cher she’s had 17 top 10 hit, #1 hits in 7 decades. She says she stayed for whole Rock and Roll Hall of Fame program. [Even I had thought he had left.] Stern said he assumed she was the first performer so she could go home and go to bed. Cher said it was a TV show; they know who to put on.” She didn’t force them to let her go first so she could leave.
I was wondering if Stern’s prior comments about Cher would be addressed. The mea culpa came at the end. Cher says she hadn’t wanted to do the interview. She’s rather “eat glass” she thought. She wasn’t going to come on. She said she had heard he had said some mean things about her. Stern says, “I’m sorry. I’m a better man now. I was really fucked up. I’m a pain in the ass.” Then he says he voted for her to be inducted. That he was the speaker for Bon Jovi’s induction. So he apologized and said “I’m contrite.” They talk about Richie Sambora. Stern asks her about musical highlights and she talks about opening for The Beach Boys beach boys, meeting the Beatles, that Bob Dylan blew her away, and she finishes with the John Lennon Harry Nilsson story at the Playboy Mansion.
An Evening With Cher: In Conversation With Harry Smith in New York (20 November 2024)
This was the first of Cher’s traveling “talks” about her book. It was also the only one posted in full online. Cher says she never understands why people stands up when she comes on stage. She and Harry change places. “You’re beautiful” and Cher jokes that it “only took three hours.” Cher said her Dickinsean, Steinbekian childhood will make a good movie, her skid row mom whose father took her to Hollywood to be the new Shirley Temple. She admits Michael McDonald is her woulda, coulda, shoulda. She says she is a good girlfriend, monogamous, funny sweetish, I’m really good, very supportive. Smith says, “to a fault.“ In reference to a picture of Sonny, Cher says “he hadn’t had his nose job yet.” Cher talks about early living with Sonny, how “girls kept coming over and calling all the time” but that he could be playful with Cher who was just happy to be hanging out with him.
Smith talks about how “All I Wanna Do” turned into a duet. He means “Baby Don’t Go.” Cher admits she doesn’t know her address or phone number. She says, “It’s the house with all the palm trees.” (Seriously, that’s what I used to tell my touristing friends who happened up through Malibu). She talks about how much fun Carol Burnett was, how they were both Tauruses. They kid about her name drops: Richard Avedon (I had such a huge crush on him), Jackie Kennedy. She talks about how Sonny played the roles of father, brother, husband, partner and how there were many girls, how he cheated on those girlfriends with one night stand. She talks about the big breakup that started with Sonny’s signing of a three-year contract in Las Vegas. Cher says she asked Sonny for 50% after the breakup and he refused. Cher talks about the journal she bought Sonny, [some of which are in his own memoir and some Mary Bono sold to a People Magazine months after he died.]
They then take audience questions. The first is about Cher being a gay icon. Cher says they both feel like outsiders. Someone asks if she could go back a decade, when would it be. She says the 1980s were fun but she’s having a great time now. Right after leaving Sonny was both joyous and rough. Someone asks her about her West Side Story performance. She talks about discussing it with Art Fisher who was a genius with chroma key, ahead of his time. She says she was a better singer and actress later, indicating maybe she wishes she had waited to do it later. Another question is which Bob Mackie costume is her favorite. She says the Met Gala dress. What is the biggest misconception the public has about her. She says, “I’m really shy when I’m not working” and that performing is a “way to express myself without having to be vulnerable. I know a lot of actors are shy. It’s one of the reasons we do what we do.” She says singing and dancing is like going to a party at someone else’s house, it’s more fun. Acting is like hosting the party at your own house. The next book will cover her acting career. She says she knew all the studio executives, Jack, Angela, Warren, Mitchell, but couldn’t get a job. When she moved to New York, she lived at 4th and Broadway. She says she doesn’t dress up at home. “I am so ratty at home. I don’t want to be Cher at home.” Smith pronounces “our undying gratitude for you being you.” Cher quips, “who else would I be?” Smith assures her the book is quite amazing. “Maybe you’ll read it.” Cher jokes, “maybe when I’m old.”
Live with Kelly and Mark (22 November 2024)
It’s Cher Day! Kelly says as she remarks on the buzz and excitement not seen there since the president came. Mark says, “there is more people than I’ve ever seen here.” Cher walks to shake hands with the audience. She’s wearing an oversized gray suit with a hanging chain. Kelly says the book “moved me in ways I can’t express. It was so expansive” Kelly says she can tell Cher doesn’t enjoy talking about herself. Cher says, ”people get mad, upset, sad” and say, “what’s the matter with you, Bitch.” Cher calls bullshit on her reputation for reinvention. “It’s not giving up. I want to keep going.” Kelly jokes about wanting Sonny & Cher to be her birth parents. (were my fantasy parents, too) and about Chastity: “That bitch is living my life.” (I didn’t think that but I wanted to be older than Chaz for some reason and was crestfallen to learn I was four months younger). Kelly says the variety shows set an example for working mothers. They talk about how Sonny was very strict. It took me a long time, Cher says. “A house had to fall on my sister. I don’t have a temper. By the time I was done I was done. I still liked…loved him. We had so much fun with each other.” Kelly defends “Dark Lady.”
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Cher in Conversation with Darlene Love in New Jersey (22 November 2024)
Cher in Conversation with Stephen Fry in London (25 November 2024) –
These were available online for only a short time while I was in Oakland and I couldn’t get a chance to watch them before they were taken down. Boo.
The Graham Norton Show (30 November 2024)
Cher says she tripped up the stairs in her pants on the way out. We start with Josh Brolin’s story about how backstage Cher confused him with his father, James Brolin who was in her movie Burlesque for a minute. Cher says “I had so much fun that day.” Brolin complains that his dad is like 130 years old. Cher says, “So am I.” Kiera Knightly is also on and she plays “Believe” on her teeth. Cher amazes at how she hits the notes. Later Cher will tell Knightly that she looks good in her new show and Knightly says “thank you, Cher” with a thrilled look on her face. Cher is surprised Graham read the book. Cher tells women and girls not to give up. They talk about how S&C were huge music stars and Cher says the London Hilton story was not a publicity stunt to her knowledge. [Some bios have said that it was.] Cher says her first interview were in England. She says she is bad she is with numbers. “Someone has to add up my Gin score.” [Funny that because I just had a family reunion in Joshua Tree and could also not add up my scores. I am not dyslexic. I am just numbers dumb (as my family reminded me a million times in the last few weeks but there are many different types of intelligences: visual, musical, mathematical, logical, emotional) and Mr. Cher Scholar’s cousin kept adding up my scores before I could every attempt to do it during a dice game.] Cher keeps saying “there was no dyslexia in those days” and what she means is the diagnosis. You can tell Cher likes Josh. He tells good Goonies stories. Goonies is the only reason I like Josh Brolin (oh and Flirting with Disaster). This episode is less a four person conversation than last year’s couch with Julia Roberts and Tom Hanks. Cher tells about her first career nadir, when her “records started dive bombing” and Sonny & Cher went from performing in arenas (first she says stadiums at first….not that big) to just four people in a bar. “Now I’m an icon and legend” she jokes sardonically. They talk about how S&C had no fan boundaries in the 1960s (Sonny told stories himself about inviting fans into the house and Cher talks about this in the book), Fans would dress like Cher and storm the stage and try to rip their clothes off. There was a Cow Palace fangirl, Cher says, who tried to pull off Sonny’s moccasins, one which had his wallet in it. “They wanted a part of you.” Josh talks about reading Cher’s book (or hearing about it) and compares his childhood to hers, both the fun and craziness of living with his mom and the chaos and Cher’s mom. He talks about his memoirs. Cher interjects with “You’re more interesting than I thought.” (Cher’s has been saying a version of this a lot in this round of interviews: Howard Stern, Jimmy Kimmel). “You could be my boyfriend.” This makes the crowd laugh. Josh freezes and says “Let me take that in” and looks at Graham and says “I don’t remember your question and I don’t care.” Josh talks about his drug history and Cher talks about her Benzedrine story. Josh says he discovered he needed the chaos the drugs created. Cher answered that “I’ve created chaos without drugs.” Josh talks about responding well to women like Cher and his step-mother Barbra Streisand, people who say it as it is.
Cher talks about her final album and praying she can still hit all the notes. Jalen Ngonda sings a song and comes over to the couch afterwards, telling each couch person in turn “nice to meet you” and then when he gets to Cher he changes it to “I love you so much.” I really liked this guy when I explored his debut album after the show. Ngonda talks about discovering old 60s and 70s music at age 11, artists like the Temptations, Motown, Sonny & Cher, The Beach Boys, The Doors and Chicago. I’m sorry but Sonny & Cher doesn’t usually make that list. He talks about Smokey Robinson. Cher says “I love Smokey” and Ngonda says “I love you! I got your 45s at home.”
Cher says something else at the end and Graham says “Cher says the darndest things!” Cher is not always amused by Graham Norton.
Cher in Conversation with Jacqueline Stewart in Los Angeles (2 December 2024)
I attended this conversation. and I’ve also been to many book readings. I can assure you, none (not even David Sedaris) have had a merch table. This was held at the Saban Theater. I bought a tote and a magnet. There was also a program with a good write up saying “Cher’s remarkable career is unique and unparalleled….with her trademark honesty and humor, Cher: The Memoir traces how this diamond in the rough succeeded with no plan and little confidence to become the trailblazing superstar the world has been unable to ignore for more than half a century.” Sara Gilbert sat a few rows in front of us with her son. There were cowboy hats on gay men. And one ironic fur vest. This was also the first book talk I’ve been to with a intro tour video. It felt out of place but my bookish friends didn’t think so. Stewart calls Cher “one of my favorite people; you look incredible.” Stewart mentions the book’s level of detail. Cher talks about the first book she ever read, still one of her favorites, The Saracen Blade, a novel by Frank Yerby that Sonny recommended to her. They talk about early music that inspired her, Hank Williams, Disney’s Cinderella song “A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes.” They talk about her mom’s premonitions, how Cher’s voice didn’t blend and she didn’t even know about blending. Cher compares her contralto range to Bruce Springsteen and Paul McCartney. She says performing with Tina Turn was like a “death wish.” Because Stewart is a talking head on Turner Classic Movies, it wasn’t surprising when she said, “Let’s talk movies.” Cher talks about her struggles to get auditions and the irony of her packed shows at Caesars Palace, how she was not happy. “Singing on stage I loved,” she admits, but movie people wouldn’t give her the time of day. She tried to speak to Francis Ford Coppola about a movie project twenty years ago [this is probably her dream to remake The Enchanted Cottage], and he “just answered me now.” “Altman is a bear’s ass,” Cher says and Sudie Bond was a great actor. “I did two movies with her. She thought I was gonna mug her in the elevator.” [How did Sudie Bond not know know who the most photographed woman in 1970s America was?]. Cher recalls that ” Sandy Dennis said it was the worst audition she had ever seen. Karen Black didn’t like me very much. I almost hit her once. She was such a bitch.” Feeling guilty Cher insists that she shouldn’t “take cheap shots.” She says she told Robert Altman he ruined Popeye. Cher says she was really good at matinees, which were full of little old ladies. Cher says working with Meryl Streep was one of the highlights of her life. Of Mama Mia: “I’m a hired hand in that one.” [So true.] Cher reminds us she is a fan of classic movies and would watch them with her mother. Who were the performers she looked up to? James Dean. Elvis. She often couldn’t relate to the women. Stewart says she’s been told “the dress shouldn’t wear you” and how this applies to Cher. Cher talks about having rubber bands around her shoes and her mother making her wear them to school as a task of humility. Cher talks about her “future body,” how she didn’t fit with the classic beauty ideals but how she “turned my back on it, made own clothes, wasn’t gonna get any place in the regular way, wasn’t a regular girl.” They talk about the respect Cher has now in black and brown communities and in gay culture. Cher says she still feels like an outsider. About the gay community she says, “they never left me. Even when I was down and out. There’s a special place in my heart. So many times I was over. I couldn’t get arrested.” The talk about the Greta Garbo and Marlene Dietrich boldness compared to Cher. How her dress is often a statement of “women’s empowerment.” Cher says, “I wear what I want to wear. I don’t ask permission.” She also advises, “If you have a dream, follow it. You only have this one life. My nine lives are over.” Sara Gilbert’s son keeps standing up and holding the book over his head. Very excited. They talk about areas of Los Angeles, Cher’s hometown, the prejudice she has against The Valley. “I was poor there.” They talk about her industrious mother and Cher’s yearning to go out into the world. “I wanted wheels. I am a work in progress.” They talk about Sonny. Cher says there will always be Sonny & Cher. Stewart talks about Cher’s gracious, forgiving heart. Cher says, “If you get bitter it’s not gonna hurt him.” They talk about David Geffen. If not for David Geffen I’d be sleeping on the highway. Cher talks about him having the phone receiver to his head all the time and their first date where Geffen was afraid Cher would attack him. Cher says she is the “least likely to jump on a man in the universe.” [She might have to fight me on that one; it’s just not polite.]
They then take audience questions (and here I realize we never were given any opportunity to ask questions so who’s questions are they? One question is about Cher’s famous I am a Rich Man quote. Cher says, “don’t pay attention to expectations. You have to become who you are.” Another question is about her recording history and unreleased albums. Cher says she has no idea. “I didn’t even read the book.” She talks about a new album she’s making, half with her boyfriend Alexander Edwards, half with her “Believe” producer Mark Taylor. She touts Edwards as the VP of Def Jam records and how his songs are “so fresh.” She said she had a good time with the Christmas album and that this was the first time she’s asked people to sing on an album. She says she loves Kelly Clarkson and that for the Christmas album, “I don’t wanna sing all that old shit. Can you imagine me singing “Frosty the Snowman?” [Well, yes, I could. You sang “O Holy Night” quite memorably.] Cher tells us “thank you for coming. You were a great audience.” She points out some friends she knows in the crowd and says she looks forward to seeing them backstage.
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The Kelly Clarkson Show (3 December 2024)
Clarkson introduces Cher by mentioning her 17 top 10 hot 100 hits. Again Cher gets a standing ovation. Cher gives Kelly one-of-a-kind gloves made for her for Kelly’s celebrity guest wall. Kelly says the real gift was Cher coming. Kelly talks about her guest stint adding vocals to Cher’s 2023 Christmas song “DJ Play a Christmas Song.” Clarkson says, “I love that you let me sing that song with you.” Cher says she wanted it louder like as a duet. Kelly said she took the job to be like a backup singer. Cher says they will redo it. They talk about Cher’s mother living in the Bowery of every city. That her mom had talent but “I just went farther.” Again Cher mentions that there are 600 men in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to 90 women. She said she had fun being inducted and have previously wondered, “what do I have to do?” She says she’s drinking Coke Zero. They mention her most active social media account:Instagram@cher. They talk about her being an employee of Sonny’s and when the split up contractually she couldn’t work. She tells the story of Sonny cheating on Suzie Cohelo and talking to Sonny about it in Paris with Sonny in the bathtub. Cher is asked to list her top five live events:
- 5 is the 1967 Carol Burnett Show performance singing with Sonny where they met both Burnett and Bob Mackie.
- 4 is the 1968 Madison Square Garden charity benefit concert for Martin Luther King where she met Jimi Hendrix
- 3 is David Geffen’s birthday party when she sang with Bob Dylan and Don Henley.
- 2 is her performance on The Ed Sullivan Show in 1965 with Sonny.
- 1 is the Take Me Home Tour 1979 because it was the first musical project she did on her own.
They talk about how Las Vegas has changed and how she was ahead of her time with residencies there. She said Sonny once told her it’s as bad to be too early as is to be too late.
Cher in Conversation with Joel Selvin in San Francisco (4 December 2024)
Desert Island Discs (British) (aired 15 December 2024)
This was another great interview because it focused on music and thereby produced questions other interviewers don’t ask and answers Cher normally doesn’t give. (Question 1) What are the misconceptions? Cher, “That what I wear is frivolous.” She’s says she’s not one thing. She’s shy when she’s not working. She says she used to not like her records. But she’s gotten used to them. “I’m all things, the persona you see and the self you don’t see.” She says she’s been on the road most of her adult life. As for the R&R HoF, she is proud to be in there with people she respects. For each question, she picks a song. For this question it’s “Whiter Shade of Pale” by Procol Harem. “I like the sound. I don’t care what they say. It’s the feeling. Sonny was too middle of the road. He would want to understand the lyrics. I just thought it was genius.” (Question 2) They talk about characteristics of mom, tough, funny, smart. “We fought lots. I never talked back. The way to get her was to stop talking. Give yes or no answers.” She talks about her birth father, Johnnie Sarkisian, who met Georgia during the war and was a good dancer. She says she has his half smile, his lack of temper. Cher says she did like him although he was a mess. “He was who he was, cute, charming, kind. For this segments, she pick “Love Me Tender” by Elvis. Elvis, Cher says, was the “beginning of me knowing what I was gonna do.” She tells the story of seeing Elvis when she was 11 years old. Her mom loved music. Her grandfather and uncle played guitar. They all sang together. She loved Elvis’ gold suit, the drama of his entrance.
(Question 3) They talk about Georgia’s six marriages and how her mom’s girlfriends were her real family. She talks about some of her step-dads: Joe Collins, John Southall, the most crucial dad figure in their lives. She talks about the poverty, eating on the same pot of beans, shoes with no soles. Cher says she’s gone barefoot her whole life, sister that she and her mom have the same voice, that her mom said things in a funny way and had a ridiculous laugh. Cher picks for this segment, “A Dream Is a Wish Your Heart Makes,” a song she first heard when she was 4 or 5 years old, before sister was born. (Question 4) Cher talks about being a terrible student, how she only learned by listening, but that she was great at sports and pretty popular. She talks about organizing the Garland and Rooney like performance of the musical Oklahoma. How did it go over? Cher says she just “let it go” and “felt like I had a bad flop.” She choose the song “Evil” by Stevie Wonder but says she could have picked 10 other songs of his. She likes the special lyrics of this one, the concept and believes Wonder is a genius like Beethoven. She says it “felt like liberation to me, the first music [post Sonny] that I got. We became friends.” (Question 5) They talk about her first impressions of Sonny, so electrifying although he was not handsome. He was “unbelievably dressed” and had beautiful fingers, was “really charming.” They talk about her time working with Phil Spector, who Cher says was “21 and a genius. She picks the Spector classic, “You’ve Lost that Lovin Feeling” by the Righteous Brothers. She remembers Brian Wilson, Sonny, Darlene at the session doing backups, Billy (Bill Medley) getting ready to do vocal. According to Cher, “We all stopped. The whole world stopped. We knew this was gonna be one of the great songs.”
(Question 6) Cher tells the “I Got You Babe” story. Cher says “I didn’t think much of this song” when Sonny sang it to her in the middle of the night. But then admits in the studio “it sounded really good.” She wonders how Sonny, “how does he even know the oboe and bassoon?” She said the song had a fresh sound. “I don’t think it’s the greatest record I’ve ever heard” but that “it captured a moment.” She says it knocked “Help” off the top of the charts. Cher says they had sold or hocked everything they had had to get to England. There she was asked for her first autograph. Cher says Sonny was a traditional Sicilian in terms of relationships, that Sonny’s “Dad that way with his mom,” the patriarch. “He didn’t want me going anywhere or to have friends…he didn’t want any escape routes.” Cher says she became used to Sonny taking care of her but then it started to bother her when Sonny lost interest in her as a person. She was also “disappointed and angry, past furious” when she discovered he had taken her half of their earnings. ” I couldn’t work without his permission. I was forced into the contract. I wasn’t home eating bon bons [when they made all that money]. I was there at Motel 6.” But she reminds us again that “without Sonny, there would be no Cher.” And then, here is the kicker. That she would pick this song for the Sonny segment. It seems to almost pain her, too, to say it out loud: “Ugh. ‘I Can’t Make You Love Me‘ by Bonnie Raitt. I love her. She’s a great musician. She’s got a great voice, plays slide like a demon. It’s one of the best love songs I’ve ever heard.” [I got a little verklempt at this part of the interview. This is probably as emotionally raw as Cher has ever been when ruminating on Sonny.]
(Question 7) They talk about Cher’s incredible iconic outfits and her fashion history, the recent exabit of some of them at London’s V&A Museum, the numerous scandals they occasioned. Was that intentional? Cher demurs, “I wasn’t sophisticated enough to know what we were doing” and Bob Mackie was so young. She says they were recycling old Carol Burnett gowns in the beginning. “She had some great gowns too. CBS was always bitching about the costs.” They discuss The Dress, a.k.a. The Naked Dress, The Met Gala dress. Cher says she had to be naked sunbathing to wear it and they had to spray water on it to attach it to her skin so that when she wore it, you couldn’t see the fabric, only the sequins and the mirage was that she was naked just wearing sequins and feathers. They talk about Cher being under the microscope for decades and a part of “unrealistic beauty standards” Cher insists she “plays by my own rules.” That there is definitely a standard to keep up which is not expected of men. But she says, “men in Hollywood are vain” but that they can be “straggly and old. Helen Mirren ages really well, Judy Dench” That leads to a discussion of the “[Franco] Zeffirelli ladies” from the movie Tea With Mussolini, “ I just wanted to listen. Joan Plowright took her clothes off and jumped into the water.” Cher says she was “sweating vapors” during her scene with Maggie Smith. How did Maggie Smith respond? She said, “Don’t be ridiculous.” They talk about the Silkwood preview and everyone laughing, And like everything, Cher isn’t bitter about that audience response. She calls it “visceral; you can’t argue with it.” But it made her sad. She plays “Minute by Minute” by The Doobie Brothers for this segment. “I had such a crush on him [Michael McDonald]. I should have told him.”
(Question 8) They talk about Cher’s two sons, Elijah and Chaz, Elijah’s heroin addiction, Chaz’s transition. Cher says, “you do your best, be supportive, keep trying. Elijah is so bright, so smart. It hasn’t served him well. He’s above all of us.” [This does seem the crux of the problem. Intelligence doesn’t always engender wisdom.] “Greggory, he tried hard. They’ve got demons. It is what it is.” Cher talks about how freighted she was during Chaz’s transition from female to male. “Chaz is great, a great person.” She says she’s close to both of them. They talk about Cher turning 79 soon and how she’s still relevant. “I like creating stuff” but that the next album will “probably be my last album.” She says the voice runs out. There will come a time when she can’t hit the high notes. “I’ve got great songs. I really want to try my best.” They then talk of sending Cher to the deserted island. How would she manage? Cher admits she doesn’t have any practical skills. Just tenacity. She talks about her deserted island song by saying Sam Cooke and Sonny were good friends. Her song is “A Change Is Gonna Come” which is her all time favorite song. She says there are “people whose voice comes from some other place. The book would be The Saracen Blade [mentioned above] because it “opened a whole new world, a whole new thing,” starting her on a path of reading. Her luxury item would be an eyelash curler because her mom once said every woman would need one on a deserted island.
L’INTÉGRALE with Éric Jean-Jean (French) (19 December 2024)
Mr. Cher Scholar assisted with the translation and transcription of the questions and French commentary. One question I had for Mr. Cher Scholar was how do the French consider Cher?. Do they know her? What adjectives do they use? Mr. CS said Jean-Jean, (a name he found funny, from one John-John to another), did not spend any time explaining to the French who Cher is. It was assumed that the French know who she is and her career markers and products.
Jean-Jean states she has sold over 100 million albums, is an “actrice” who has won several Golden Globes, an Oscar and a best actress at the Cannes Film Festival. She has had an incredibly rich career, he says, “une carriere incroyablement riche, trop riche pour un volume.” too rich for one volume. “She called us from the California hotel where she is staying.” (This as Jean-Jean explains later was due to the first Los Angeles fire, the Franklin Fire that came right up to her house in December of 2024.)
They play a piece of “Strong Enough” and Jean-Jean says the book goes up to about 1980. When are we going to read the second part? Cher says she missed three deadlines on the first book and she hasn’t started part two yet.
Jean-Jean talks about Cher seeing Ray Charles sing “Georgia” on TV. What was going on in her head at that moment? Cher says she was, “on my floor, lets crossed, peanut butter and jelly sandwich” and that it was a “watershed program every day as teenager.” She’s talking about American Bandstand.
Jean-Jean explains that her surname is Sarkisian (it was) which is Armenian. He talks about how her mother worked as a waitress but had a career as a singer and actress in a few films. Was this a complicated childhood for you, Cher? Cher answers, “You think? I love my mom. We fought like cats and dogs. She talks about her birth father’s lack of a temper, her mom’s voice, how her sister has it too, but “me a little bit more.” They play “I’m Your Yesterday,” the duet Cher once did with her mother and Cher tells the story about trying to lip sync it for television but couldn’t tell which parts were her. [I can tell. They are very similar but Cher’s voice is more smokey and syrup and her mother’s is more crystal and champagne.]
Jean-Jean says “your mother married several times. You moved a lot with each new father. How was that for you? Cher says her mom didn’t stay very long. Men come and go. She just remembers the extraordinary beautiful women. Jean_jean says her mother’s childhood was marked by poverty and violence and their heritage is Cherokee, “anglaise, irlandaise, française” and your father, Armenian. That gives you what type of character? Cher says as a child she was “not thinking life is horrible. This is your life going through it.” It was both fun and sad. Her mom’s history was very bad. “Mine was better than hers. I’m an American. That makes me a real mess.” She talks about her trip to Armenia which she says was amazing, a medical supply trip. She says she arrived after the wall fell in 1990. She talks about the picture of her sitting on the toppled statue of Lenin and how “everyone I met was so amazing, gracious. I have Armenian eyes.” She talks about her Armenia relatives, her father her Aunt Roxie. Jean-Jean notes that Cher went back to Armenia in 1993 to discover her heritage. Jean-Jean says “Did you feel Armenian, like you found your Armenian roots or are you definitely an American? Cher says she is definitely an American woman. But she can be many things. She did feel at home there. “They were so happy to see me. ” She says America is built upon people from other countries.” In Armenia, “everybody looked like me. People don’t go to Armenia like Azerbaijan. They have gas. America never bothered to help Armenia. They have no natural gas. They don’t have anything.”
Mr. C.S. was unsure what Jean-Jean was saying at this point “except arguably the most beautiful woman in the world” or “nobody could argue that they might have the most beautiful women in the world.”
Jean-Jean asks Cher to tell us about how her mother took her to see Elvis Presley when she was 11 in Los Angeles at the Pan Pacific. They talk about Elvis in concert, her seeing him on Ed Sullivan, his gold suit, how she wanted to be like him. Jean-Jean says “you say that your mother was so beautiful that night, the most beautiful woman in the world. Cher says [and I think to differentiate her mother from herself, because she doesn’t consider herself so self-evidently beautiful without a lot of makeup] “those days women could just wear lipstick, mascara, rouge. You had to be beautiful with those three things.” This reminds me of her Desert island comment about the eyelash curler. If you’re that beautiful, that’s all you’d need.
Jean-Jean continues talking about Elvis on stage, his eyes and his hair that matched Cher and how she wanted to be like him. He asks, singer actor or star? Cher talks her grandfather, mother, uncle guitar, how they all sang together and she thought everyone did that, about seeing Dumbo and Cinderella. She says she had no Plan B. She’s not much of a planner anyway. She says due to her dyslexia, she had no academic future. She tells the story about failing the math test. They play “Walking in Memphis,” which Jean-Jean introduces as coming from the It’s a Man’s World album of 1995, originally done by Marc Cohen and the song is about Elvis and that this is the first “choque” of Cher, which neither Mr. C.S. or I knew what that meant. Choque means “shock.”
Jean-Jean notes that Cher was “16 ans” when she left home and worked as a “magasin de bonbons” (at See’s Candy Store) when she met Sonny Bono. Was it in New York or Los Angeles? And what did you feel at that moment? Cher says she met Sonny at Aldos Café, a coffeeshop that was under a radio station in Los Angeles. She says people were all calling to him when he walked in, “Sonny! Sonny! It’s Son! I thought he was special.” She said it was an experience just seeing him. “He didn’t like me at all” but they ended up as pals. Hanging out as friends. He was promotion man with singles and would meet DJs to try to get songs played. “He was very good at it. He had a good personality. Everyone liked him. He was affable.”
Jean-Jean explains that Sonny began working with Phil Spector in the famous Gold Star Studio (I’m amazed the French know all of these details of American music) and you accompanied him. And one day Phil Spector asked you to replace Darlene Love of the Ronettes (this is a mistake, Love wasn’t one of the Ronettes but that is a fine point since all the groups cross-pollinated as needed…however Love mostly sang lead vocals with the Crystals, Bob B. Soxx and the Blue Jeans, and as a solo artist under Spector’s productions.) How did this story happen? Cher said she had no place to go. Sonny offered that she could stay at his apt, “but I’m not attracted to you.” He heard her singing while making the beds one day and started promoting her to Spector after that. She says the experience, “was fabulous” because it was going from The Valley to a studio with the most famous music people. She talks about the songs she recorded there. They play Darlene Love’s song “Winter Wonderland” which Jean-Jean explains is from Spector’s Christmas album of 1963 and he calls this Cher’s debut as a singer.
Jean-Jean asks Cher to recount why she didn’t realize she had a very special voice. Cher says her voice wasn’t good for background because she was too loud. “I didn’t blend well in the beginning,” [I would argue she still rarely doesn’t.] “I never thought of being a real singer and get paid for it.” Jean-Jean asks her to remember the first solo song she did as Bonnie Jo (Mason). How it’s about being a fan of Ringo Starr? Cher says the DJs wouldn’t play it. They thought it was a man singing a love song to another man at a time when that was illegal. They play “Ringo I love You.”
Jean-Jean wants to know if Phil Spector was already crazy when Cher worked with him in the mid-1960s. Cher says “not in the beginning. He wasn’t crazy. Very eccentric.” She says they had fun together. “His parents were first cousins. He had a great sense of humor.” Cher says everyone in the studio was in their early 20s (except Sonny who was 27). “Everyone was quite young. In my mind everyone was old because I was 16 .
Jean-Jean says Sonny & Cher first found success with “I Got You Babe.” Can you tell me how that song came about? Cher tells the IGUB story. Says their piano at that time was in the living room and they had no furniture. Jean-Jean asks “And when did you realize this was a good song?” ? And Cher says while they were in the studio doing it, everyone came in and was curious about the song and the words. My mom called everyone babe. Jean-Jean plays “I Got You Babe.”
Jean-Jean notes that “you say in the book that Sonny became difficult. You cay Sonny could be hard on you. What happened at that time? Drugs like Phil Spector? [Oh, that’s funny.] Cher doesn’t say anything about drugs [aside from prescription drugs, Sonny didn’t abuse any] but she says “Sonny would take care of everything. I didn’t know about the business world. I was happy to just sing.” Cher says they became famous and that was amazing, But then their careers “went into the toilet.” T
Jean-Jean reminds us that Cher’s book covers the decades of the 1950s, 60s and 70s primarily. You say Sonny was strange. He hired a detective to follow you when you were alone (and Mr. C.S. isn’t sure what is said here but possibly something about Sonny’s two-timing Cher. Cher says she became used to it. That at 16 she don’t think to ask why he was doing what he was doing. “He was fun. I didn’t notice. I was flattered. It’s hard to explain. When I started to grow up, had my own thoughts, he wasn’t going for that.”
Jean-Jean says Sonny also wrote several songs like “Bang Bang” on the second solo Cher album, The Sonny Side of Cher in 1966, a song that had a lot of success in France [I can’t find the French charts. I wish I could as this is my favorite question of the interview]. How did this song come about? Cher says “it was such a strange song. We loved it. It sounds like it shouldn’t be a relationship song. It was a strange take on love.”
Jean-Jean asks her about the French singer Sheila’s version (1966) and the Italian-French singer Dalida’s version (1966). And he plays the original song. [Going to search for those songs lead me down a rabbit hole that resulted in this page, a repository of “Bang Bang” covers.]
Here Jean-Jean seems to be talking about a kind of album from CBS. How did that happen? Mr. Cher Scholar and I think he’s talking about the album encapsulating the nightclub shows, Sonny & Cher Live. He says we’re going to listen to an excerpt of that “mythic show” and we think he means the CBS show. So all of that is getting confused together, more so when he plays “Can’t Take My Eyes off Of You” from their appearance on the Playboy Club show, not the Comedy Hour. This song was not on any album or segment of their CBS show. (the TV shows were not big in Europe so they’re not as familiar with it.)
Cher explains how they lost all our money, started at the bottom again in horrible nightclubs, “People didn’t like us. We dressed like our style before” in some “unpleasant places.” Eventually they changed to a tuxedo and gown but “people didn’t like our music.”
Jean-Jean astutely talks about all the artist of Lauren Canyon, the Beach Boys, Mamas and Papas, Jefferson Airplane (technically true I see from a Google search but I always associate them with the San Francisco psychedelic sound, not the Southern California sound). What was that like at the time? Cher says, “you don’t think about famous people when they’re your friends. ” You’re not in awe of them. You think, “that’s a great song or Michelle looks great tonight. They’re just your friends.” Jean-Jean continues that she also met at the time Jimi Hendrix and Salvador Dali. Cher says this is just show biz (baby!) and you run into people.
Jean-Jean notes that in 1975 Sonny and Cher divorced. How did you feel at the end of this marriage? Cher says, “He drove me crazy but we were always friends. “My wife could say that” quips Jean-Jean. on stage, Cher says working with Sonny could be so much fun, the best time. “I don’t think two people could get along so well playing around and singing. He liked playing around and I liked playing around.”
Jean-Jean says, now they’re going to play the cut “The Beat Goes On” from the 1967 In Case You’re In Love album (I love that he notes the albums), a song written by Sonny Bono and he asks the audience, have you ever heard any song like it? After your separation that was a new stage for you, in 1980s you stared doing films. Did you like this new career as a comedian?
Cher says she wanted to be funny and sing since was five. She starts to tell the Mick-Jagger-You-Should-Go-To England story but then corrects it to the Francis-Ford-Coppola-You-Should-Go-to-New-York story (they’re very similar stories as it turns out).
Jean-Jean recounts that Robert Altman gave her the role as a fan of James Dean in a Broadway play. Jean-Jean then recounts Cher’s “remarkable career” in films like Silkwood, Mask, Les Sorcieres D’Eastwick, how she won best actress in 1987 over Meryl Streep and Glen Close (for Moonstruck, which in France was called Éclair de Lune) and then he incorrectly says she played Morticcia in The Adams Family (this was Anjelica Houston, and is a big gaffe) and then goes on to discuss Mermaids which was strangely called in France Les 2 Sirènes. Why two? There were three women in the story.
They then play “The Shoop Shoop Song,” (pronounced choop choop) from 1990. What should we know about that song? Cher explain the movie being the story of the mother of an eccentric family. Cher says it was the story of my sister and my life and my mom, two daughters, one is kind of crazy, a mom trying to make it. She describes the scene where they are setting table with the radio on, singing and dancing. [The movie is not literally their story. It was a novel by Patty Dann and also her MFA thesis from Columbia…but in any case, I think I now understand this movie.]
We’re coming to the end of the hour Jean-Jean says. He wants to ask about the story of “Believe,” the last song he’ll play from the 1998 album of the same name. He comments on its enormous success, historically the first to use a “novelle technologie,” the vocoder (incorrect, it was a pitch machine later named AutoTune). Can you tell us more? Cher says the verse was never very good. She says the pitch machine was able to you on the note and they played with it. Let’s listen to Believe, Jean-Jean says. It’s the only song played in full.
Jean-Jean notes that autotune has been used heavily by rappers. My last question, “Do you believe in life after love? [Oy] Cher says, “Yes there is life after love. It’s a strange concept. There is no life without love, you couldn’t live without love. Love is always coming to you.”
Thank you so much Cher.
Jimmy Kimmel Live (7 January 2025)
This marks the 400 TV appearance I have tracked. Wow.
Cher first tells Jimmy Kimmel “you got balls, dude” for what he said about Trump in his opening monologue. I rewatched the show recently in Cleveland with my parents to see what he had said in the monologue. (My mom is a big Jimmy Kimmel fan because he keeps mentioning his staff and labor issues). The monologue seemed pretty typical of his usual monologues so maybe Cher just hadn’t heard one of them before.
Kimmel says, “I take that as a great compliment from you. You do have balls in the spiritual sense. And there’s a lot of that in here (the book).”
Kimmel notes that her book has spent six weeks on the New York Times bestseller list and that it’s very exciting to have her on the show. Kimmel says “maybe it’s annoying to you when people are interested in your life” but that he was honestly interested. For Christmas, does she cook? Cher said she had 26 people for dinner, six she didn’t know (friends of relatives and friends). She says she decorated and there were lots of cute kids there including Slash, the son of her boyfriend, Alexander. Kimmel quips, “I’m gonna try to sneak in there next year.” Cher says she is in possession of Sonny’s popular red sauce recipe that was his mother’s recipe and that she makes it occasionally for Christmas. “Olive oil, garlic and onions and I’m on my way….Son made it great and he handed it down to me.” She hasn’t taught it to others, however. “It is with me. I’m taking it to my grave….which could be any moment.”
Everyone groans and Cher says, “When you’re old, you know?”
Kimmel again notes her book was #1 for six weeks in a row [maybe just four]. “That’s a lot of weeks.” Is Cher surprised. Cher says she didn’t want to “squish it together” in only one volume. With the first one she wanted to see how it was, did she do a good job, would people be interested. She notes the book goes back from her great-grandparents up through the television years. Kimmel asks if there will be three volumes? “Will this interview be part of the next book?”
In a Man Show moment, Kimmel wants to talk about Cher’s losing virginity to guy in Toluca Lake. Do you think we could find the spot? Cher says she doesn’t even remember the guy. “I have people I’ve mentioned and I’m wondering what do they think, like one guy who was very instrumental in helping me to leave Sonny and I wonder how does he feel about it. He was a really good person.” This excites Kimmel and he want to dig him out. Cher thinks he’s in Texas. Kimmel calls out, “Open the fucking book. Guillermo. Go through it real quick. Get him on phone?” No, Cher says.
They talk about Sonny and how she felt equal only when she was working on their show. “I loved it. We loved it. We worked so well together. It kept us closer longer than I really wanted.”
Kimmel trots out the 16 Magazine Sonny & Cher advice column. He decides to ask her a question from it to see if she would respond in the same way. The question is not one of the columns I had found last year, by the way.
[Do show writers scan the internet for interview ideas? This reminds me of the time David Letterman referred to the Cher Historians among us. Are these just coincidences?]
Anyway…this elicited a very annoyed Cher stare.
Here is the question Kimmel reads:
Dear Cher, I have a problem. I hope you can help me. I’m 13 years old. I like a boy who is in my class and he seems to like me but sometimes he teases me. He hits me gently on the face and calls me names just to be fresh. I’m also four inches taller than he is and please tell me how I can get him to be my steady. Unhappy, Ridgefield, NJ
Kimmel asks Cher how she would respond to Unhappy now? Cher says, “Kick him to the curb.” The audience likes this and she smiles. Kimmel then reads the response from the 1960s Cher.
Cher says, “Oh God.”
Dear Unhappy, As I’ve said here many times before, if a boy teases you it’s a sure sign he digs you. Just be good natured about it and give him a nice friendly smile now and again. Sooner or later, he’ll come around. As for being four inches taller (Cher interjects, “nah”) well most girls are taller than boys nowadays. I’m talker than Sonny and he couldn’t care less. In fact, he digs me in boots with medium high heels. Hang in there. Keep trying and you won’t be unhappy for long.
We should hear Kimmel’s response now as opposed to the response he would have given on The Man Show.
Cher shakes her head. “Come on girls. We know that’s not true.”
In that time, they’ve found out the guitarist’s name. It’s Bill. Cher says, “I know.” She’s not willing to share his last name. “Because of him, not me.”
The next book should come out in November but Cher admits she hasn’t started the new book but that she finished this one late too but still hit the deadline. “We’ll see,” Kimmel says skeptically. “November of what year?” Cher says, “I’m a little tardy. I think I’ll be better this time.”
Kimmel says he feels like she can help her and starts to ask rapid fire, random questions. Does she drive a car? Cher says she hasn’t driven in a while but just bought a car and will drive soon. What does her drivers license say? She says it doesn’t show her last name. She had to go to court and get special dispensation to prove she is known by one name. “It’s not easy,” she says. Guillermo pipes in that he wants to do it.
Has she ever been to Costco. Cher says, “I think once.” Kimmel says, “You’d know if you had. May I please take you to Costco sometime. I’d love to take you to Costco.” Cher says a flirty little “okay.” Has she ever played a video game? Yes, she has. Which one and when? “None of your business. A month ago.” Has she ever been on jury duty? Cher says she tried as research for the movie Suspect where she played a lawyer (“doesn’t count,” Kimmel says) but the judge thought she would be too distracting. Who is the most intimidating person you’ve ever met (present company excluded? That gets the Cher stare.
Cher lists Obama, Tina Turner, Ray Charles. If you could turn back time (Cher interjects, “this is so dumb”) what year would you go back to. Cher picks 60. Was it her best year? No, 40 was her best year. She stared to work in film and started to get respect. Why not 40, then? Cher laughs and says 60 seemed like a good number. “When you’re 78, 60 sounds great.”
Kimmel shows a picture of Cher and Jimmy Carter (the one under the street sign) and says they look like they’re having an intimate conversation. Did she know him well? Cher tells the story of The Allman Brothers giving Carter some of his earliest campaign money and how she had dinner with the Carters on their first night in the White House. She starts but doesn’t finish a story about President Carter calling her once for a favor. This turns into the story about why Cher didn’t get along with Johnny Carson, who had her thrown out of a party. And then time is up and Kimmel starts to wrap up.
Cher says, “You’re a lot nicer and funnier than I thought you would be.”
The Jimmy Carter story reminds me that my friend Mikaela recently sent me an excerpt of Amy Carter talking about Cher at the White House and how this was one of her most memorable moments of that time.
If you’ve made it this far, apologies for the likely many typos. I would proof this yet another time but we have to move on to other things, my own review of the memoir, the Hall of Fame week, the new commercial and other upcoming things. So. Much. Stuff.
Because I dug out Cher’s book Forever Fit recently for pasta sauce recipes, I decided to sit down last week to reread it. The last time I read it I was 21 years old (right when it came out) and I didn’t know nothin’ about nothin’ so I’m sure a lot of it (ok, all of it) went right over my head.
The whole trend started with Jane Fonda’s Workout Book (which I also had and followed lazily), which was a real phenomenon and started a whole high-impact aerobics craze which unintendedly is now requiring copious amounts of boomers and Gen-Xers to have knee and hip replacement surgeries. These were coffee-table sized books, some paperback, some hardback. Linda Evans had one. There was one by Joan Collins and Cheryl Tiegs. Vogue had a few.
