Category: Stage

Another deep dive.

In late 2024 I came across an online Rolling Stone Magazine article introducing a podcast called “Why Cher’s ‘Believe’ Has Ruled Dance Floors for Nearly Three Decades.”

Rolling Stone had just come out with a 2024 list of their take on the 500 greatest popular songs and “Believe” had made this list. This was interesting to me for two reasons. One, it allowed me another thought-dive into “Believe” and also it reminded me of Cher’s appearances on previous RS lists and how arbitrary these lists are.

1988

Let’s go back in time. Back when I was in high school in St. Louis I had a subscription to Rolling Stone. The September 8, 1988, issue included a list of “100 Best Singles of the Last Twenty Five Years.” Around that time there had been a best albums issue already and my brother Randy (home from college) and I had had a friendly competition to see who had the most albums on the list. Very surprisingly, we tied. (Five years younger, I was fully prepared to lose.)

But anyway, on this 1988 list, which I recently dug out of the Chersonian Institute’s archives, there was one Cher song. Well, almost one song. It was really the Sonny Bono /Jack Nitzsche penned “Needles and Pins” which ranked at #64 between Joy Division’s “Love Will Tear Us Apart” and Jimi Hendrix’s “All Along the Watchtower.”

To put things in perspective, the #1 and #2 songs on this 1988 list were “(I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction” by the Rolling Stones and “Like a Rolling Stone” by Bob Dylan. Which seems a bit to much rolling stone considering the name of the magazine.

The paragraph write-up about “Needles and Pins” talked about how the 1964 Searchers version had done something “formidable,” in that it “introduced the twelve-string sound, which would become a staple of American bands from The Byrds to Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.” Searchers guitarists McNally and Pender then talked about how this came to be by accident.

(click to enlarge)

This RS write up only mentions one other version of the song, Jackie DeShannon’s 1963 original version. It doesn’t mention Cher’s 1966 version. But then neither does the Wikipedia page on the song, which mention’s the 1977 European hit version by Smokie, the Ramones version in 1978, Tom Petty’s 1985 live version and a smooth 1999 version by Willie DeVille.

But there are others. Here is a sampling:

• The Ventures (1964) (This is a nice instrumental version)
• Gary Lewis and the Playboys (1965)
• Crack the Sky (1983)
• Die Campbells (2009, South African country)
• Uke-Hunt (2014 ukulele)
• Sweet Little Band (2015, an I’m only including this muzak version because its part of a delightful collection called Ramones for Babies which if I had a baby, I would totally play this for them)
• Kramer (2017 neo-prog/alt) (interesting and unique version)
• Trippynova with Luca Giacco (2019 reggae version)
• Jorn (I kind of really like this 2020 Norwegian hard rock version)
• Die Toten Hosen (2020, German punk)
• White Rose Motor Oil (2021, country/cowpunk)

(After listening to all of these, I need to listen to the inverse song, “Pins and Needles” by Kristina Train just to reset the machine between my ears.)

But nothing was said about the songwriters and plenty more could be said about Sonny’s “best friend” as Cher said in her Memoir of Jack Nitzsche who would go on to become the arranger for Phil Spector during the Wall of Sound era. Nitzsche is often given the most credit for his work on “River Deep Mountain High” with Ike and Tina Turner. He also worked with The Rolling Stones and did the choral arrangements for “You Can’t Always Get What You Want.” He would go on to write the scores for movies like Performance, One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest and The Exorcist and co-wrote “Up Where We Belong” for the movie An Officer and a Gentleman.

2004

But sadly, “Needles and Pins” wouldn’t stay on the next incarnations of RS lists. By 2004 there was an expanded list of 500 songs. And Sonny & Cher allegedly made that list where “I Got You Babe” ranked at #451. By this time, the top two songs had switched spots. “Like a Rolling Stone” by Bob Dylan was #1 and “(I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction” by the Rolling Stones was #2.

2021-2024

On the RS 2021 list, (which started from scratch and then was updated in 2024 with songs from 2021 to early 2024), “I Got You Babe” had fallen off but “Believe” had landed at #338. (I’m not sure if that position maintained between 2021 and 2024 because I haven’t seen the official RS 2021 list. The song may have been at #337 in 2021.)

So “Believe” remains the Cher song on the list. I would not die on the “Believe” hill, as I’ve often said, but “Believe” did introduce a technical trick that became very popular, I guess like the twelve-string in “Needles and Pins.” But that doesn’t mean it was a well-constructed, conceived or a well-written song. It’s value will be remembered in its production. But “Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves” had production values that have also stood the test of time. And none of this even speaks to the metaphorical or literary values of a song. Among Sonny’s cowboy songs, for example. “Bang Bang” is certainly undervalued. Or songs that became part of the common lexicon, like “The Beat Goes On” or Diane Warren’s “Turn Back Time” which not only became a meme but has become a yearly meme for the end of daylight savings.

Or maybe it just comes down to votes not values. Where would we be without lists to argue about, I guess.

Music journalists Rob Sheffield (whose 2024 book Heartbreak Is the National Anthem: How Taylor Swift Reinvented Pop Music I just purchased to try to understand that whole phenom) and Brittany Spanos chose “Believe” as one of the 25 songs they would discuss on a podcast created for the 2024 list. And their 6 August 2024  discussion was not only thoughtful and fascinating, as it put thoughtful context around Cher’s entire career, but it also explained how the song “Believe” landed for kids in Great Britain.

I myself did not experience “Believe” as a kid or teen. I was 26 years old and living in Yonkers, New York, hearing the song while driving home from work at Yonkers Contracting and following the song’s weekly charting from my crappy apartment along the Hudson River. I remember being somewhat baffled after coming upon NPR discussing the song one day on my car radio. It was kind of cognitive dissonance for me. Why this song?  So this podcast was interesting to me in that it explains how the song held meaning for an age group that wasn’t mine.

Sheffield and Spanos begin by calling the song “actually perfect…a perfect song,” one that represents the “whole, story, legacy and madness that is pop music.” Spanos says it’s also a song that is “part of the grand story of Cher” and she talks about the ups and downs of her career (big success, big flops and disappearances) and how over the last decade there has been “newfound appreciation” for Cher,” a “Cher revival.” Sheffield talks about the “synthi-ness of the chorus and vocal,” how “new and exciting” it was among other typically Cher-sounding Cher hits of the 1990s. (I think he means 1980s or maybe the late 1980s into the early 1990s, which was the span of her big Geffen-era hits). He said this was a “Cher-like” song on a whole new level.

Spanos talks about being at a friend’s house watching Spice World as a kid and the mother of her friend put  on the DVD for what sounds like the live Farewell tour with the instruction to “pay attention to the wigs.” Spanos says that instruction changed her life. She starts talking about Cher’s history with Sonny. She mistakenly says Sonny was 32 when they met. (Sonny was born in 1935, Cher in 1946. Cher was 16 when they met, Sonny was 27.) Spanos talks about their early pop-folk hits. Sheffield comes in discussing their variety show, how kids would tune in to see which music artists would show that week to perform songs. He said it was a “weekly education in music. They were the DJs.” (This is  overstating it a bit considering the musical acts were often people like Joey Heatherton and Merv Griffin.)

Spanos goes back to talk about the “country/rock covers” of Jackson Highway album and how critics panned it at the time but that it’s actually “a great album.” The digress to say Cher’s swampy “Tonight I’ll Be Staying Here With You” is one of the “greatest versions of a Bob Dylan song.” (They make a joke about “outsung, outsold” that I am on the outside of). Sheffield says Cher’s “Bob Dylan connection itself could take up three whole episodes.”

They then cover her solo TV work of the 1970s. Sheffield says Cher would “steal from everything” and she had “wide open taste.” They talk about the “astounding” performance with David Bowie on her solo TV show, the “insane medley,” one of the “freakiest things ever to air on network TV.” Sheffield then brings up the “insane” West Side Story performance from her 1978 TV special.  Spanos also notes Cher as being “integral in bringing Tina Turner back” on TV for multiple appearances when she was trying to relaunch as a solo artist.

Spanos says Cher then stared a band called Black Roses. She says Black Roses three times incorrectly. (It’s Black Rose). They talk about Spanos’ love of the Broadway Cher musical, how she particularly liked the fictional duet between one of the Chers and Gregg Allman doing the Diane Warren song “Just Like Jesse James.” She did not like the actual duet album which they mistakenly mispronounce (as Howard Stern also did in his 2024 Cher interview) as All Man and Woman. The correct title is Allman and Woman. There is no space between All and Man. It’s literally Gregg Allman’s name, as in Gregg and his woman (oy vey) and not some kind of traditional declaration of gender roles. (This is like trying to differentiate between caveman version 1 and caveman version 2.)

Anyway, Spanos says she cried several times during the musical and they call Cher and Gregg, “an incredible couple.” And I think it is nice that a kind of revisionist kindness in reconsidering this union in a new light these days. Sheffield highly recommends Allman’s memoir, My Cross to Bear, and tells of a Cher story in it where Gregg Allman is trying to pick Cher up for their first date in a limo and Cher exclaims that she will not ride in a funeral car and so they take her Mercedes.

Spanos talks about how Cher is “an experimental person.” Sheffield agrees saying Cher would “do anything” and was “not bothered by genre,” be it disco, southern rock, glam rock, hard rock or a medley or West Side Story songs. He says “she is part of every story in pop music.” Spanos says Cher has been “proven right by history” and critics are looking back and re-evaluating her, seeing that her voice does indeed “sound great” singing in multiple styles. They talk about how every year people rediscover the West Side Story clip and how “insane and fun” it is to watch.

Sheffield goes into Cher’s 80s decade of movies, how “she did it the hard way,” how she had no celebrity inside track to movie roles, how Silkwood was not a Cher-type role and how many actresses saw playing lesbian roles as a “career killer move.” “It cannot be stressed” enough, Sheffield says, how “bold and unprecedented and unexpected and unremarked-upon at the time that was.” Spanos talks about the iconic, respected actors Cher co-starred with and how Cher “is holding her own” along side them. Sheffield calls her performance in Mask “astounding,” that she played a working-class biker mom, a character that was very “unglamourous, gritty and unsaintly.” Spanos says that in all Cher’s movie roles she was de-glamming, dressing down, playing an everywoman.” And at the same time, she was having hits like “Turn Back Time,” balancing her gritty acting roles with glam-Cher music moments, keep her acting career going while relaunching as a rock vocalist. Spanos talks about the the “Turn Back Time” video “onesie” outfit. Sheffield enthusiastically remembers “the entire U.S. Navy” on the war ship.

They then talk about the struggles of the 1990s and Cher’s battle with the Epstein-Barr Virus, how she was seen (again) as “past her prime.” There were the informercials and the Writing Camp album (Not Commercial) recorded in 1994 but not released until 2000. Spanos calls it an introspective “great album, one of the first Internet-only releases.” They talk about her reunions with Sonny and his death in 1998. Spanos recalls Cher’s “stunning” and “heartbroken” eulogy for Sonny and how the loss of someone so transformative might have affected her performance in “Believe.”

As they set up talking about “Believe,” they acknowledge that Cher was seen as “washed up” for the first time in her late teens! She’s now in her 50s. She was “not expected to be still going into her 30s.” The song becomes thematic of her resilience. Spanos calls it “one of the great dance songs of all time” and she explains how it arrived during the dance renaissance of the late 90s, the “euro dance club wave,” that the song was an “unexpected sound from a 50 year old.”

They talk about the popularity of what became known as Auto Tune, how the song was ahead by decades in its influence on rap artists like T-Pain and Kanye West. Sheffield clarifies that it is not a vocoder but pitch correction and Spanos talks about how the song is “one of the great hopeful, euphoric dance songs” and how “do you believe in life after love” is a “gutting line.” (Because how common it is to feel like life itself cannot go on after a great, failed love.) They talk about the song in the context of Cher’s 1990s “major health issues” and her “uncertain future,” losing Sonny, one of the great loves of her life…a great love.” Sheffield says the technology is not used to hide” or “to fix flaws,” that the technology “is flaunted” and that right around “the self-doubting part of the song” you get this “flutter” and “vocal pirouette,” that the song is “blatantly digital” and “robotic” in a way that “makes it sound more human.” Cher “expresses a part of the song by altering her voice.”

Spanos talks about how the producer Mark Taylor wanted to experiment with the pitch correction and Cher wasn’t afraid of it. They claim, as does Cher, that the song “changed pop music” and they remind us that the record won a Grammy. Spanos said the song also made people re-evaluate artists in their 50s, especially women, that hitting the age of 50 need not mean the end of one’s chart-making career. Spanos insists that “Cher only gets more popular every single year” and that she’s a “beloved figure in entertainment history.” She talks about Cher’s “remarkable Twitter account” and Sheffield thinks that Twitter “will only be remembered as part of Cher’s timeline.”

(I believe the Twitter/Cher thing is long past. Cher moved to posting social media content on Instagram years ago as her primary social media. Twitter, in the meantime, will probably be remembered more for its entanglement into the fascist politics of Donald Trump and Elon Musk.)

After a commercial break, the hosts introduce Rod Thomas (Bright Light Bright Light), a DJ, artist and producer. Spanos and Sheffield thank him and he says “it’s not exactly a hardship to talk about this lady or this song.” They ask him about his first experiences with Cher and he talks about how his parents were into the Beatles (he was born in 1982) and how Cher was a famous movie actress when he was growing up. He said the first time he paid attention to her as a music artist was on the album It’s a Man’s World. He talks about loving Junior Vasquez’s “One by One” remix but that it wasn’t a hit. He says he “ran out to buy” the “Believe” CD at Woolworth’s in his hometown of Neath, Wales. They joke that Cher was on her 4th or 5th life by that time. Thomas says, “Everyone in school was talking about it, the straight kids, the weird kids, the bullies, the popular kids. Everyone was playing it. You heard it everywhere.” He feels it was the fist time there was “an all-engulfing wave around an artist everyone knew.”  It was a song everyone loved. He feels “Believe” is a “very British-centric sound” and he credits that to songwriter/producer Brian Higgins. He said the song really feels like “you’re in a British gay club.” He thinks the phenomenon was helped by the show Queer as Folk. People then were listening to “really gay music, like Gina G and The Spice Girls”. Very camp. And he believes the song was a legitimate “British gay anthem.”

Spanos says she likes to think about where music started and ended in the 1990s, from grunge to pop-punk to euro pop and House Music like “Believe.” Thomas says it was a time when “everyone was on the same page for a moment in British pop culture.” Whether you were straight or gay, whether you were in coffeehouses, clubs or a shopping center and how unusual that was, “especially for a heritage artist that traditionally younger kids wouldn’t gravitate to.”

They talk about the song being a #1 hit worldwide, a song Sheffield calls “immortal,” a song that you “instantly knew …was a timeless song. Thomas claims that Cher hates the song and how regrettable this is. He says there is a famous interview where she talks about hating how ubiquitous the song was at the time. I don’t remember this from any of the U.S. interviews. Thomas toured with Cher and might have seen a UK interview where she said this.

Thomas says that every time he works as a DJ, someone will request “Believe” and that it’s a “very mixed bag of gender, age and demographic.” “Everyone dances to this song. People melt in these ephemeral things and go feral.”

They ask Thomas where he was when he first danced to the song. He describes a British club called H2O that had three floors: a bar, a restaurant and a club at the top. He says you would hear the song playing on every single floor and that the upstairs club would play the song at least once or twice each night. He says the song represents “a specific sound and a specific moment in time.” He says Brian Higgins went on to do some great stuff but that this song “was a pivotal moment for him, for Cher, for British pop culture and for music.”

Thomas says the song “changed ageism” and put the focus on the song over the artist. Sheffield says Cher had “built her legend already” but that this song “invented a new Cher.” They then talk about Cher’s look around that time, her “wiggery.” How wonderful and cool it was. How her look was “trashy and fabulous…shimmery….” what Thomas calls “gaudy and tasteless but also fabulous and cool.” He also talks about how amazing her voice sounded on the record. “Her voice is perfect.” How the production was perfect and the genius of the technology. Of the Cher Effect, he says, “everyone was doing it in school” (imitating it) and how the song was at its peak for “many, many months.”

Sheffield talks about being at the punk show Mannequin Pussy recently and the venue was trying to “shoo everyone out” but “Believe” came on and then “no one would leave.” Thomas says, “that’s not even my favorite song on that record.” He talks about opening for Cher for nine shows across Europe and how he first saw her show in Brooklyn. He references the video montages and her other dance songs (“Strong Enough” and  “All or Nothing”), but when “Believe” came up “you could feel the room lift,” how fans were there “from every conceivable living age bracket” and that this song brings them all together. He says, “it was amazing to watch it.”